Please help with Nieuport data

S'il vous plait...

Windsock Special "Nieuport Fighters" gives a total of 7200 Le-Rhone powered Nieuports produced. Can anybody guess how many Nieuport 11, how many 16, how many 17, 21, 24 and 27? And in which month each of these model was first delivered to Escadrilles/Squadros?

Thanks so much! And if you want to help more... Other questions there:

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/aircraft/43719-please-help-production-delivery-data-some-famous-planes.html

Thanks so much!

Andrea

Voici un lien intéréssant
http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=199

et surtout ce doc :
http://www.hydroretro.net/etudegh/les_nieuports_de_la_guerre.pdf

Apparament les 7200, c'est uniquement les Nieuport 11 !

Et je rappelle aussi l'existance de ce document réalisé d'après le recoupement de nombreuses sources :
http://merlindex.free.fr/spip/IMG/pdf/chronologie.pdf

Thanks a lot, very useful links! Downloaded and studying, very useful stuff.

For the Ni.11, I find a bit hard to believe that 7200 Nieuports 11 were produced - the same cronology for WoW that you lik gives three months of full service, then the nieuport 17 is there. And there are 4000 Ni.17 fo one year and a half of full service... I think that's the usual cofusion of names, changing between durimng the war and afterward, and orders placed to the factory that change to other models during delivery or are cancelled... So that we have credible production data, let's say, for the Se5/Se5a, for all Ansaldo SVAs, for Saml S.1/S2, and so on... but not for each version.

The chronology is a great job! I did my search too and I will probably open a thread to compare sources and data. If you agree, of course. It is really rich and accurate, but I found some slightly different data that it could be useful to compare, quoting sources, to help each other.

A few examples:

- for Rumpler C.IV, the Windsock monography gives an estimated production of around 1150 (around 700 by Rumpler, 350 by Bayerische Rumpler, 100 by Pfalz). It's the best number I found among crazy things fouund around... For production, The Aerodrome says "less than one hundred":
http://www.theaerodrome.com/aircraft/germany/rumpler_civ.php
That's crazy, front line inventories give 257 in August 1917!
For first (marginal?) activity the book says "...by February-March 1917 a small number of C.IV machines had reached the various Flugparks to begin aircrew familiarization and distribution to selected Front-line units with known technical ability. One such unit, Flieger-Abteilung 18 received five Rumpler C.IVs on February 21 1917..."

- 209/213 Felixstowe F2a were produced accordig to the Windsock monography dedicated to it. A table contract by contract gives a total of 194/198 (of one contract of 25 it gives "at least 21" produced), plus 15 Curtiss H12 conveted. First delivery to RNAS accoding the same book has been in the week ending the 17th of November, 1917 (while your Dec. 1917 could be perfect for "first line activity" if it started a bit later).

- DH2 had a marginal activity that you might quote (1 plane) in July-August 1915:
http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_airco_DH2.html

The cronology is really good, and perfect for games purposes. But I am anyway curious to go deeper on some data if I don't steal your time. Would you like to do that? Shall we open a separate thread?

Hear you very soon, then!

Andrea

Merci Andrea ! A ton service.
Effectivement mon document est loin d'être parfait.
Et je suis prêt à comparer les sources pour l'améliorer et le corriger avec tes informations complémentaires.
Juste une petite précision pour mon document : le "nombre construit" correspond surtout au nombre d'appareils livrés avant la fin du conflit.
Concernant les nieuport, il est vrai que les auteurs historiens (Marcel Julian, Jacques Mortane, etc.) font peu de distinction entre les nieuport 10, 11, 12 ou 16.
Cependant, le nombre de Nieuport 11 construit devait quand même être très important, solution annoncée au "péril Fokker", il a été utilisée par toutes les nations alliées. De plus, petit et léger, il devait être facile et rapide à produire. Apparament, 646 appareils assemblés rien qu'en Italie.
Il est tout de même regretable de ne pas avoir des informations aussi précises sur la production des avions français que pour les autres nations !
Je suis passionné et donc tout à fait disposé à t'aider, et à te faire remonter mes sources d'information (si je les retrouve ).
Excuse-moi si je n'écris qu'en français, mais je maîtrise mal l'anglais et pas du tout l'italien.

It's me that must give excuses not to write in French. We are in a French forum!

Good to precise that it's production up to the end of the war! Data are tricky, so it's good to know exactly what we are measuring.

Ok I will open a separate thread. Don't feel pressed, let's do what we can.

For the Nieuports: you are correct. But Ni.11 and Ni.17 are by far the most produced ones, the other being minorities. So if we take for good the idea that 7200 is the total of Le Rhone engine Nieuports as the Windsock Special says, and we take for good the numbe of 4000 Ni.17, we still can guess than most of the other 3200 are Ni.11, and that's an importamnt number anyway. But about this I can not say more, alas.

Thanks a lot again!

Andea

From this illustrated book:

"In Italy, (Nieuport 11) was build by Macchi under the name 'Nieuport 11000', totalling 646 units."

Thanks!
We just need the French figure to add to that!

sir_erickson a écrit:

Voici un lien intéréssant
http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=199

et surtout ce doc :
http://www.hydroretro.net/etudegh/les_nieuports_de_la_guerre.pdf

Tres interessant PDF!

About "Très peu différent du Nieuport 24, le Nie-27 qui apparaît dans les écoles de chasse début 1917 reçoit un moteur Le Rhône 9 Jby de 130 ch..." I must say that it has been whidely used by several Italian Squadriglie as figfhter at the front. Marziale Cerutti, to say one ace, won 13 victories on the Ni.27 (9 official out of his 17 official ones, plus 4 unconfimed) from February 1918 to the end of the war, at the 79a Squadriglia. On his plane he boasted an ace of clubs (Italian-Spanish suits) and the MIR letter, standing for Marziale Imperatore Romano - Marziale Roman Emperor, no less!





http://www.aspeterpan.com/book1/Cerutti.htm